letstalklc
11-06 01:39 PM
Whats up, guys!
FYI:
My employer got a letter today stating that my form ETA9089 has been certified. Finally, after about 13 months waiting.
I got audited on November 2007. I filed the petition on October 2007.
Good luck with all of you guys.
Thanks for the supports!
Congratulations...great news.....good luck for the next steps...
Is your perm is filed by Fragomen Law Firm?
My PD is Sep 5th 2007...still pending....dont know when it's gonna approve...
FYI:
My employer got a letter today stating that my form ETA9089 has been certified. Finally, after about 13 months waiting.
I got audited on November 2007. I filed the petition on October 2007.
Good luck with all of you guys.
Thanks for the supports!
Congratulations...great news.....good luck for the next steps...
Is your perm is filed by Fragomen Law Firm?
My PD is Sep 5th 2007...still pending....dont know when it's gonna approve...
Sammo
08-23 03:25 PM
Wow - thanks for all the votes on mine :)
abhicyber
11-21 08:21 PM
cool_guy_onnet1:Change you wife status from H4 to F1 and use your EAD. You can try community college or any state university, they are cheaper than private ones.
ilangocal
04-07 01:58 PM
I am almost sure that if your work place (physical presence ) happens to be at a Not-for -profit organization, you case would be a cap-exempt one. However, last year USCIS and lawyers association had a lengthy debate about the legal -wordings, over this issue and i have no idea what happened afterwards
Hi
Many thanks for your reply. So, am I correct in understanding that if I work with a consultanting company (my employer) and he places me at a workplace (physical presence) that happens to at a Not-for -profit organization, then this case would qualify to be a cap-exempt one?
How do you think I should go about confirming or getting more information regarding this?
Hi
Many thanks for your reply. So, am I correct in understanding that if I work with a consultanting company (my employer) and he places me at a workplace (physical presence) that happens to at a Not-for -profit organization, then this case would qualify to be a cap-exempt one?
How do you think I should go about confirming or getting more information regarding this?
more...
indyanguy
03-18 07:37 PM
What is the reasonable time to wait for the approval of I-140 (EB3, NSC) before contacting the senator's office?
Mine has been pending for 8 months now.
Mine has been pending for 8 months now.
bmoni
01-22 04:33 PM
Talk to your attorney. I think recent supreme court rule gives us the ability to appeal it. If it was an wrongful denial.
Don't lose your hope. Keep up the fight.
Don't lose your hope. Keep up the fight.
more...
waitin_toolong
07-20 05:30 PM
http://www.insvisa.com/faq/department_state.htm#15
not an authoritative source but if both of you are in USA right now then you need to bring the kid now before GC approval on dependent visa
not an authoritative source but if both of you are in USA right now then you need to bring the kid now before GC approval on dependent visa
styrum
02-18 12:22 PM
I can't recall Democratic senators helping LEGAL immigrants during the CIR debate last year!
Maria Cantwell (D-WA) introduced the only amendment favorable for us.
Maria Cantwell (D-WA) introduced the only amendment favorable for us.
more...
desi3933
02-18 06:57 PM
Child born abroad to Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR) may be boarded if child was born during the temporary visit abroad of a mother who is a lawful permanent resident alien, or a national, of the United States, provided that the child's application for admission to the United States is made within 2 years of birth and the child is accompanied by the parent who is applying for readmission as a permanent resident upon the first return of the parent.
Link for the document (http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/travel/inspections_carriers_facilities/carrier_info_guide/carrier_info_guide.ctt/carrier_info_guide.pdf)
_______________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin
Link for the document (http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/travel/inspections_carriers_facilities/carrier_info_guide/carrier_info_guide.ctt/carrier_info_guide.pdf)
_______________________
Not a legal advice.
US citizen of Indian origin
AK01
03-26 10:48 PM
Don't listen to those who would tell you that you need 5 years after your degree was awarded. TALK TO A FREAKING LAWYER.
Simply untrue.. The magic word is: progressive, progressive, progressive...
From horse's mouth:
http://www.immigrationlinks.com/news/news215.htm
(see example from the above link below). If you file EB-2 without MS and your 5-years of experience is not post Bachelor's (or the underlying job doesn't require 5-years of post Bachelor's experience), your I-140 will be denied. If you file it, and it doesn't get denied, then the adjudicator made a mistake and consider yourself lucky.
EB-2 is Masters or BS + 5 years of progressive experience. Both for job requirement and alien qualification.
From the link:
The following are examples of actual statements contained at blocks 14 and 15 of the ETA-750. They are by no means exhaustive. Their inclusion here is intended to simply illustrate concepts discussed in this memorandum.
Position 1: Staff Software Engineer
ETA 750 Item 14:
Education - B.S. (or foreign equiv.) comp. science, elec. eng., or related field.
Experience - 5 years job offered or 5 years related occupation software engineer.
ETA 750 Item 15:
Exp. must include: design & development of major software subsystems; RDBMS internals; operating system internals; complex systems software design; symmetric multiprocessing and large scale network systems.
It is unclear whether this job requires 5 years of experience following receipt of the baccalaureate. For this reason, the adjudicator should request that the petitioner provide a supplemental statement clarifying whether the position requires five years of post-baccalaureate experience that is truly progressive in nature. If the supplemental statement establishes that the minimum qualifications for the position require a member of the professions holding an advanced degree and, assuming the beneficiary possesses these qualifications, the petition should be approved.
Simply untrue.. The magic word is: progressive, progressive, progressive...
From horse's mouth:
http://www.immigrationlinks.com/news/news215.htm
(see example from the above link below). If you file EB-2 without MS and your 5-years of experience is not post Bachelor's (or the underlying job doesn't require 5-years of post Bachelor's experience), your I-140 will be denied. If you file it, and it doesn't get denied, then the adjudicator made a mistake and consider yourself lucky.
EB-2 is Masters or BS + 5 years of progressive experience. Both for job requirement and alien qualification.
From the link:
The following are examples of actual statements contained at blocks 14 and 15 of the ETA-750. They are by no means exhaustive. Their inclusion here is intended to simply illustrate concepts discussed in this memorandum.
Position 1: Staff Software Engineer
ETA 750 Item 14:
Education - B.S. (or foreign equiv.) comp. science, elec. eng., or related field.
Experience - 5 years job offered or 5 years related occupation software engineer.
ETA 750 Item 15:
Exp. must include: design & development of major software subsystems; RDBMS internals; operating system internals; complex systems software design; symmetric multiprocessing and large scale network systems.
It is unclear whether this job requires 5 years of experience following receipt of the baccalaureate. For this reason, the adjudicator should request that the petitioner provide a supplemental statement clarifying whether the position requires five years of post-baccalaureate experience that is truly progressive in nature. If the supplemental statement establishes that the minimum qualifications for the position require a member of the professions holding an advanced degree and, assuming the beneficiary possesses these qualifications, the petition should be approved.
more...
retropain
09-01 11:08 AM
What's particularly interesting is the number of 'scare words' used in this selected testimony on aspects of the CIR bill. Its a lot like Loo Dobbs "War" on the middle class. Its clear CIS, Nusa, FAIR provide the script to him on immigration matters. I knew Loo wasn't that creative in the first place
=---
TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL W. CUTLER
SEPTEMBER 1, 2006
HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
Chairmen Sensenbrenner and Hostettler, Ranking Members Conyers and Jackson Lee, members of Congress, distinguished members of the panel, ladies and gentlemen. It is a distinct honor and privilege to provide testimony at this hearing because the topic of the hearing is of truly critical significance. We are here to avert what I believe would be a catastrophe for the United States. The United States Senate passed a bill, S. 2611, that would provide incentives for a massive influx of illegal aliens, aided, abetted and induced to violate our nation’s immigration laws at a time that our nation is confronting the continuing threat of terrorism and the increasing involvement of violent gangs, comprised predominantly of deportable aliens, in a wide variety of violent crimes committed against our nation’s citizens. It is of critical importance that this hearing and others like it, illuminate why S. 2611 would expose our nation to unreasonable vulnerabilities especially in the post-9/11 world.
A nation’s primary responsibility is to provide for the safety and security of its citizens and yet, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom, the members of the Senate who voted for S. 2611 are seemingly oblivious to the lessons that the disastrous amnesty of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) should have taught us. That piece of legislation lead to the greatest influx of illegal aliens in the history of our nation. Fraud and a lack of integrity of the immigration system not only flooded our nation with illegal aliens who ran our borders, hoping that what had been billed as a “one time” amnesty would be repeated, but it also enabled a number of terrorists and many criminals to enter the United States and then embed themselves in the United States.
A notable example of such a terrorist can be found in a review of the facts concerning Mahmud Abouhalima, a citizen of Egypt who entered the United States on a tourist visa, overstayed his authorized period of admission and then applied for amnesty under the agricultural worker provisions of IRCA. He succeeded in obtaining resident alien status through this process. During a 5 year period he drove a cab and had his license suspended numerous times for violations of law and ultimately demonstrated his appreciation for our nation’s generosity by participating in the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 that left 6 people dead, hundreds of people injured and an estimated one half billion dollars in damage inflicted, on that iconic, ill-fated complex. America had opened its doors to him so that he might participate in the “American Dream.” He turned that dream into our worst nightmare. The other terrorists who attacked our nation on subsequent attacks, including the attacks of September 11, 2001, similarly exploited our generosity, seeing in our nation’s kindness, weakness, gaming the immigration system to enter our country and then, hide in plain sight, among us.
As I recall, when IRCA was proposed, one of the selling points was that along with amnesty for what was believed to have been a population of some 1.5 million illegal aliens would be a new approach to turn off what has been described as the “magnet” that draws the majority of illegal aliens into the United States in the first place, the prospect of securing employment in the United States. In order to accomplish this important goal, IRCA imposed penalties against those unscrupulous employers who knowingly hired illegal aliens. My former colleagues and I were pleased to see that under the employer sanctions of IRCA, the unscrupulous employers of illegal aliens would be made accountable, or so we thought. We were frustrated that we had seen all too many employers hire illegal aliens and treat them horrendously They paid them sub-standard wages and created unsafe, indeed hazardous working conditions for the illegal aliens they hired, knowing full well that these aliens would not complain because they feared being reported to the INS. Meanwhile the employer would not face any penalty for his outrageous conduct. Finally, it seemed that the employer sanctions provisions of IRCA would discourage employers from hiring illegal aliens and would also make it less likely they would treat their employees as miserably as some of these employers did.
Of course, we now know that the relative handful of special agents who were assigned to conduct investigations of employers who hired illegal aliens made it unlikely that employers would face a significant risk of being caught violating these laws and that they would face an even smaller chance of being seriously fined. Furthermore, the way that the amnesty provisions of the law were enacted simply created a cottage industry of fraud document vendors who provided illegal aliens with counterfeit or altered identity documents and supporting documents to enable the illegal alien population to circumvent the immigration laws. Ultimately approximately 3.5 million illegal aliens emerged from the infamous shadows to participate in the amnesty program of 1986. I have never seen an explanation for the reason that more than twice as many aliens took advantage of the 1986 amnesty than was initially believed would but I believe that two factors came into play. It may well be that the number of illegal aliens in the country was underestimated. I also believe, however, that a large number of illegal aliens were able to gain entry into the United States long after the cutoff point and succeeded in making false claims that they had been present in the country for the requisite period of time.
To put this in perspective, I have read various estimates about the number of illegal aliens who are currently present in the United States. These estimates range from a low of 12 million to a high of 20 million. If, for argument sake, we figure on a number of 15 million illegal aliens, or ten times the number that had been estimated prior to the amnesty of 1986, and if the same sort of under counting occurs and if a comparable percentage of aliens succeed in racing into the United States and making a false claims that they had been here for the necessary period of time to be eligible to participate in the amnesty program that the Reid-Kennedy provisions would reward illegal aliens with, then we might expect some 35 million illegal aliens will ultimately participate in this insane program. Once they become citizens they would then be eligible to file applications to bring their family members to the United States, flooding our nation with tens of millions of additional new lawful immigrations while our nation’s porous borders, visa waiver program and extreme lack of resources to enforce the immigration laws from within the interior of the United States would allow many millions of illegal aliens to continue to enter the United States in violation of law.
The utterly inept and incompetent USCIS, which is now unable to carry out it’s most basic missions with even a modicum of integrity would undoubtedly disintegrate. The system would simply implode, crushed by the burden of its vicious cycle of attempting to deal with an ever increasing spiral of rampant fraud thereby encouraging still more fraudulent applications to be filed. Terrorists would not find gaming this system the least bit challenging and our government will have become their unwitting ally, providing them with official identity documents in false names and then, ultimately, providing them with the keys to the kingdom by conferring resident aliens status and then, United States citizenship upon those who would destroy our nation and slaughter our citizens.
I hope that this doomsday scenario will not be permitted to play out.
Insanity has been described as doing the same things the same way and expecting a different result. Where our nation’s security is concerned it would be indeed, insane to ignore the lessons of IRCA.
When I was a boy my dad used to tell me that there were no mistakes in life, only lessons, provided we learn from what goes wrong and make the appropriate changes in the way we do things. However, to repeat the same mistakes was to him and to me, simply unforgivable.
Chairmen Sensenbrenner and Hostettler, I commend your leadership in calling this hearing to make certain that these concerns are made public and are taken into account, especially as we approach the anniversary of the fifth anniversary of the attacks of September 11 and our nation continues to grapple with the immigration crisis.
America is at historic crossroads at this moment in time. Courageous decisions need to be made by our nation’s leaders. If our nation fails to select the proper path, there will be no going back. If our nation decides to provide amnesty to millions of undocumented and illegal aliens, I fear that our national security will suffer irreparable harm as we aid and abet alien terrorists who seek to enter our country and embed themselves within it in preparation for the deadly attacks they would carry out. The priority must be clear, national security must be given the highest consideration and priority where the security of our nation’s borders and the integrity of the immigration system are concerned.
=---
TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL W. CUTLER
SEPTEMBER 1, 2006
HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
Chairmen Sensenbrenner and Hostettler, Ranking Members Conyers and Jackson Lee, members of Congress, distinguished members of the panel, ladies and gentlemen. It is a distinct honor and privilege to provide testimony at this hearing because the topic of the hearing is of truly critical significance. We are here to avert what I believe would be a catastrophe for the United States. The United States Senate passed a bill, S. 2611, that would provide incentives for a massive influx of illegal aliens, aided, abetted and induced to violate our nation’s immigration laws at a time that our nation is confronting the continuing threat of terrorism and the increasing involvement of violent gangs, comprised predominantly of deportable aliens, in a wide variety of violent crimes committed against our nation’s citizens. It is of critical importance that this hearing and others like it, illuminate why S. 2611 would expose our nation to unreasonable vulnerabilities especially in the post-9/11 world.
A nation’s primary responsibility is to provide for the safety and security of its citizens and yet, for reasons I cannot begin to fathom, the members of the Senate who voted for S. 2611 are seemingly oblivious to the lessons that the disastrous amnesty of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) should have taught us. That piece of legislation lead to the greatest influx of illegal aliens in the history of our nation. Fraud and a lack of integrity of the immigration system not only flooded our nation with illegal aliens who ran our borders, hoping that what had been billed as a “one time” amnesty would be repeated, but it also enabled a number of terrorists and many criminals to enter the United States and then embed themselves in the United States.
A notable example of such a terrorist can be found in a review of the facts concerning Mahmud Abouhalima, a citizen of Egypt who entered the United States on a tourist visa, overstayed his authorized period of admission and then applied for amnesty under the agricultural worker provisions of IRCA. He succeeded in obtaining resident alien status through this process. During a 5 year period he drove a cab and had his license suspended numerous times for violations of law and ultimately demonstrated his appreciation for our nation’s generosity by participating in the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993 that left 6 people dead, hundreds of people injured and an estimated one half billion dollars in damage inflicted, on that iconic, ill-fated complex. America had opened its doors to him so that he might participate in the “American Dream.” He turned that dream into our worst nightmare. The other terrorists who attacked our nation on subsequent attacks, including the attacks of September 11, 2001, similarly exploited our generosity, seeing in our nation’s kindness, weakness, gaming the immigration system to enter our country and then, hide in plain sight, among us.
As I recall, when IRCA was proposed, one of the selling points was that along with amnesty for what was believed to have been a population of some 1.5 million illegal aliens would be a new approach to turn off what has been described as the “magnet” that draws the majority of illegal aliens into the United States in the first place, the prospect of securing employment in the United States. In order to accomplish this important goal, IRCA imposed penalties against those unscrupulous employers who knowingly hired illegal aliens. My former colleagues and I were pleased to see that under the employer sanctions of IRCA, the unscrupulous employers of illegal aliens would be made accountable, or so we thought. We were frustrated that we had seen all too many employers hire illegal aliens and treat them horrendously They paid them sub-standard wages and created unsafe, indeed hazardous working conditions for the illegal aliens they hired, knowing full well that these aliens would not complain because they feared being reported to the INS. Meanwhile the employer would not face any penalty for his outrageous conduct. Finally, it seemed that the employer sanctions provisions of IRCA would discourage employers from hiring illegal aliens and would also make it less likely they would treat their employees as miserably as some of these employers did.
Of course, we now know that the relative handful of special agents who were assigned to conduct investigations of employers who hired illegal aliens made it unlikely that employers would face a significant risk of being caught violating these laws and that they would face an even smaller chance of being seriously fined. Furthermore, the way that the amnesty provisions of the law were enacted simply created a cottage industry of fraud document vendors who provided illegal aliens with counterfeit or altered identity documents and supporting documents to enable the illegal alien population to circumvent the immigration laws. Ultimately approximately 3.5 million illegal aliens emerged from the infamous shadows to participate in the amnesty program of 1986. I have never seen an explanation for the reason that more than twice as many aliens took advantage of the 1986 amnesty than was initially believed would but I believe that two factors came into play. It may well be that the number of illegal aliens in the country was underestimated. I also believe, however, that a large number of illegal aliens were able to gain entry into the United States long after the cutoff point and succeeded in making false claims that they had been present in the country for the requisite period of time.
To put this in perspective, I have read various estimates about the number of illegal aliens who are currently present in the United States. These estimates range from a low of 12 million to a high of 20 million. If, for argument sake, we figure on a number of 15 million illegal aliens, or ten times the number that had been estimated prior to the amnesty of 1986, and if the same sort of under counting occurs and if a comparable percentage of aliens succeed in racing into the United States and making a false claims that they had been here for the necessary period of time to be eligible to participate in the amnesty program that the Reid-Kennedy provisions would reward illegal aliens with, then we might expect some 35 million illegal aliens will ultimately participate in this insane program. Once they become citizens they would then be eligible to file applications to bring their family members to the United States, flooding our nation with tens of millions of additional new lawful immigrations while our nation’s porous borders, visa waiver program and extreme lack of resources to enforce the immigration laws from within the interior of the United States would allow many millions of illegal aliens to continue to enter the United States in violation of law.
The utterly inept and incompetent USCIS, which is now unable to carry out it’s most basic missions with even a modicum of integrity would undoubtedly disintegrate. The system would simply implode, crushed by the burden of its vicious cycle of attempting to deal with an ever increasing spiral of rampant fraud thereby encouraging still more fraudulent applications to be filed. Terrorists would not find gaming this system the least bit challenging and our government will have become their unwitting ally, providing them with official identity documents in false names and then, ultimately, providing them with the keys to the kingdom by conferring resident aliens status and then, United States citizenship upon those who would destroy our nation and slaughter our citizens.
I hope that this doomsday scenario will not be permitted to play out.
Insanity has been described as doing the same things the same way and expecting a different result. Where our nation’s security is concerned it would be indeed, insane to ignore the lessons of IRCA.
When I was a boy my dad used to tell me that there were no mistakes in life, only lessons, provided we learn from what goes wrong and make the appropriate changes in the way we do things. However, to repeat the same mistakes was to him and to me, simply unforgivable.
Chairmen Sensenbrenner and Hostettler, I commend your leadership in calling this hearing to make certain that these concerns are made public and are taken into account, especially as we approach the anniversary of the fifth anniversary of the attacks of September 11 and our nation continues to grapple with the immigration crisis.
America is at historic crossroads at this moment in time. Courageous decisions need to be made by our nation’s leaders. If our nation fails to select the proper path, there will be no going back. If our nation decides to provide amnesty to millions of undocumented and illegal aliens, I fear that our national security will suffer irreparable harm as we aid and abet alien terrorists who seek to enter our country and embed themselves within it in preparation for the deadly attacks they would carry out. The priority must be clear, national security must be given the highest consideration and priority where the security of our nation’s borders and the integrity of the immigration system are concerned.
manish1905
10-06 04:02 PM
Hi Manish,
I hope everything goes well with you.
Did the officials call you or come to see you in person?
yes the official did came in person at my work without any notice.He even took mu picture at my desk.it was hell of a surprice.He even wanted talk with my Supervisor but he was on vacation that day.
I hope everything goes well with you.
Did the officials call you or come to see you in person?
yes the official did came in person at my work without any notice.He even took mu picture at my desk.it was hell of a surprice.He even wanted talk with my Supervisor but he was on vacation that day.
more...
sankap
08-13 10:39 AM
Can you share how you can check your status online after you've filed I-485? Who would send you the URL --your immi lawyer or the USCIS? Also, my lawyers filed said they filed my 485, AP, EAD the same day. Is that possible?
sandeep77
02-02 07:43 PM
I am on F1 too and i recently went to India after we had applied for i-485. I used my AP and when i had asked in my Office of International education I was told that the moment i applied for i485 my F1 was cancelled.
more...
jonty_11
01-15 04:32 PM
Canada Consulate Buffalo Letter states "please take test withing 120 days of this letter" Does that mean I have to only take the test withing 120 days OR
take test, get results, mail them the results within 120 days...
I think its the latter....but what if ELS test center delays results...?
I think local ELS center is closed today due to MLK holiday...will call tomorow and see if then conduct this test ..
take test, get results, mail them the results within 120 days...
I think its the latter....but what if ELS test center delays results...?
I think local ELS center is closed today due to MLK holiday...will call tomorow and see if then conduct this test ..
immi2006
10-04 01:39 AM
Based on current estimates, it will be 10-15 years time, unless u r son/daughter can sponsor you prior... u will end up in family quota wait still.
I am not sarcastic this is the reality,
There are many people on this forum who have been waiting for 5 years or more. No one can predict when you will get the GC- such is the beauty of the EB Immigration System.
I am not sarcastic this is the reality,
There are many people on this forum who have been waiting for 5 years or more. No one can predict when you will get the GC- such is the beauty of the EB Immigration System.
more...
myuname
06-25 11:50 AM
Anybody else in the same boat?
I'd say proceed with filing 485 for now and later you can think about porting etc.
Rather try filing it yourself and save lawyer fees ($1500 per primary applicant and $2000 for primary + dependent? geez this is a special offer?)
I'd say proceed with filing 485 for now and later you can think about porting etc.
Rather try filing it yourself and save lawyer fees ($1500 per primary applicant and $2000 for primary + dependent? geez this is a special offer?)
pdakwala
03-01 08:04 PM
Support IV now or else start packing bags. There are few things that you can do and that is not difficult.
1. Become member of IV
2. Support them by contributing money.
3. Support them by taking part in conference call and meet the lawmakers.
You can do it. By the way stop giving others BS that
1. We are on H1B and so no one will hear us.
2. Is it legal or illlegal to contributing money.
These are nothing but just excuseS. In reallity you don't have guts and faith in yourself.
1. Become member of IV
2. Support them by contributing money.
3. Support them by taking part in conference call and meet the lawmakers.
You can do it. By the way stop giving others BS that
1. We are on H1B and so no one will hear us.
2. Is it legal or illlegal to contributing money.
These are nothing but just excuseS. In reallity you don't have guts and faith in yourself.
starving_dog
06-13 01:17 PM
Was that 2007 you were referring to?
snowshoe
11-15 08:28 AM
We (3 of us from the PA state chapter) had a meeting with Congressman Joe Sastak's office staff in Media, PA.
The staff member was completely unaware of our issues (other than, FBI name check takes long time and USCIS processing is slow). However, she was eager to understand our problems.
She recommended that we should meet the office staff in DC since they handle issues related to legislations.
The staff member was completely unaware of our issues (other than, FBI name check takes long time and USCIS processing is slow). However, she was eager to understand our problems.
She recommended that we should meet the office staff in DC since they handle issues related to legislations.
lavanyamohan
11-20 08:58 PM
message sent to CBS60 minutes...
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